It was no
coincidence that actor Wes Studi
was cast an the tribal chief Eytukan in director James Cameron's
Golden Globe-winning 3D film
Avatar or as bounty hunter Sam, the lead character in
Only Good Indian. From the days he wasin
Dances with Wolves with fellow native-American Graham Green,
Studi's been a go-to guy for authentic native-American
characterizations. Though he has often played parts that had nothing to
do with his heritage, his passion and total commitment has made him
For the 63-year-old Studi, being a Native American has been a driving
force for his career whether in terms of the characters he has played
or the issues they have addressed. Usually his performances are charged
by a strong, almost arrogant stance as if expressed by a man who is
proud to have not only survived but thrived.
sculptor, musician, author and activist, Studi caught the attention of
Hollywood and the public in director Kevin
Oscar-winning Best Picture, Dances
He's appeared in more than 50 film and television productions,
of the Mohicans (1992), Geronimo:
An American Legend (1993), Streets
of Laredo (1993), Mystery
Men (1999), The
New World (2005), Seraphim
Falls (2006), Bury
My Heart At Wounded Knee (2007)
He recently starred as Tony
a series of PBS specials produced by Robert
Redford: Skinwalkers, A
Thief of Time and Coyote
Before this opportunity to join the blue-skinned cast of Avatar, he
Linus Abner in
last year's NBC series Kings.
Born in Norfire Hollow, Oklahoma, this fit six-footer exclusively spoke
his native Cherokee language until he started kindergarten. A
professional horse trainer, Studi began acting at The American Indian
Theatre Company in Tulsa getting his shot in Hollywood but he and wife
Maura Dhu never became Californians; they now live in Santa Fe, New
Mexico and perform in the band Firecat of Discord.
In Avatar, Studi
plays an idealized character that comported itself with a dignity
becoming of a tribal leader that represents the values and strength of
the Na'vi the tribe that resists the human invaders who threaten to
destroy his community's way of life. In the indie-produced The Only Good Indian, he
plays a very different character a deeply conflicted Indian who stalks
his own people (in this case, the young kids taken from their tribes and
forced to be Christianized but run away) and his character strives
for acceptance within a White world.
of these films have their own little pleasures and difficulties. What
were they for each?
The pleasures of course were working on a huge blockbuster and I don't
think I'm premature in saying that's the case with Avatar. But of
course, it had many difficulties. That world's language, for one, was
fairly difficult in that it's a made-up language. It also remind[ed me]
that all these things were a very real thing to my ancestors. And then,
in a way, we're reminded that indigenous cultures many times fall under
the manifest destiny of those who would gain something from our
suppression. So it's always a difficult and sad reminder that life is
not as equitable as it could or should be.
becoming a successful actor and getting to be in a movie like
where you are able to convey a message in a variety of ways is that
part of the way you turned your anger into something positive?
Right. Exactly. That's the whole thing in that you can't allow the anger
to hold you in a state of mind that would prevent you from doing
anything positive about it.
native characters have some characteristics like indigenous peoples from
Africa, but they seem so connected to Native American traditions the
relationship with plants and animals, especially to the horses. Did you
have an opportunity to infuse some of your own experience or ideas in
I think a lot of the research had been done on the part of the writers
themselves already. But yes, I could certainly relate to what was on the
printed page and I think they had a good understanding of the situation
from a general viewpoint. The idea that Native Americans are perhaps
more connected to nature is reflected in the Na'vi connectedness of the
tree and the roots that expand everywhere. It's a Native American
premise to life that everything is connected and that we're all related
in one way or another and it's a matter of cause and effect. You know
the old story about the flapping of a butterfly in China has an effect
on things that happen in Maine or someplace. It's all an interconnected
being that we're a part of.
How did you get involved with Kevin Willmott, director of The Only Good
Indian who had success at film festivals with C.S.A.: The
Confederate States of America?
I had met a couple of his producers, Scott Richardson and Greg Hurd,
earlier. Then they got in touch and said they had a script that they'd
really like me to consider. I was working on Avatar at the time. I
took a look at it, and sure enough, it has a story that totally piqued
my interest because of the content. So we made arrangements to actually
do it, and the rest is history. How long
was the shoot and how close was it to where you live?
It's actually about a nine-hour drive from where I live, but I was
commuting from Los Angeles because we were shooting Avatar at the time. I had
about a nine or ten-day break from Avatar when we got
started on the first part of the script in Wichita. Then I had to go
back and finish up Avatar
and came on back to Kansas and we finished it within a matter of, I
think, it was a seven or eight-week shoot.
were the challenges with The Only Good
I'm at a loss to see it from the outside. I'm a product of those kinds
of policies that led to the kinds of physical and emotional abuses that
occurred during the transition from the 1800s into the 1900s. It's
always been a reality to me; it exists at all times, it didn't just go
away. I'm at a loss to see it from the perpetrator's side of the whole
thing. I can only see it from our side of the fence.
Only Good Indian, you had a more direct influence by being the
Executive Producer. At what stage did you decide to do that?
The intriguing part of the whole story to me, which I was part of
bringing forth, was the idea of the vampire and how it spreads itself
and continues to just grow and grow and grow when it's either accepted
and/or adhered to. When we first see me, I am totally working toward
becoming that which is the oppressor. [I have] decided that the old ways
are of no use so why not, if you can't beat them, join them. I have
known many people like that throughout my life, and I wanted to be able
to show that this kind of effect can be rampant. It's like that
Stockholm syndrome thing, in that we become one with our enemies, our
oppressors. That is a reminder that we need to stick with the strength
of that which we at one point believed in.
You've been a carrier for your culture and other times had roles that
were not necessarily reflective of that culture. Is it still hard not to
be typed? Do you feel that it's important to be able to play those
characters rather than let somebody else who didn't come from that
It's [important] to me to be able to play those other characters,
because even then I've continued to carry the banner. That's not just
with American Indians. Actually, what it comes down to is that it's
brown people; it's the fact that we see some brown people on screen.
It's a matter of people of color is what it really comes down to, and
anytime a guy like me winds up in a film like this, it's very good for
people of color.
thing you mentioned color because they were blue in Avatar.
It's still a color, isn't it?
when you saw Avatar
completed, were you amazed, were you glad, or did you have a whole
different emotional experience?
I was overwhelmed by the technology. I really was overwhelmed by the
amazing 3D of it all. The story, yes, absolutely I think it's a very
old story, but this time told in a technologically new way that makes it
even more acceptable for audiences. It's a great pleasure to be a part
of something that is not only technologically advanced to the point of
amazement, but also one that carries a message that it does and
acceptance of one group by another.
is it to have all those things stuck on you? And were you able to play
that character while playing with the other actors, or do you do that
No, you play with other characters. The only thing that you have to be
careful of is the camera that sits right in front of your face and the
light. But once you become accustomed to that, it's acting in the grand
you upset when your character dies in movies?
Well, of course I'm upset when he dies. I would rather have lived to see
a sequel. Many times it's a matter of providing the drama of a death
that adds to the film. I've died many times in film and television.
least you get to play the leader; that's something. You have been the
sage, or the great father, a warrior or whatever.
But in The Only Good Indian,
I live. And live gloriously, at that.
must astound you when you look at it from the other point of view, the
incredible arrogance. Is there ever a point when you can understand what
were they thinking? Or is it just that you can only be angry about it?
No. It's actually a curse to be able to understand that our people were
somewhat imperial in their movements at times. I'm Cherokee, and there
were times when social expansion was something that is needed by a
cultural group or a national group. I can understand that to a certain
extent, but the arrogance of it is something that amazes me. And to use
the use of religion or belief systems that contribute to the attitudes
that came up with manifest destiny, that kind of thing, as well as the
need for fuel that is apparent in Avatar. All of these
things come to mind. While it's amazing, it's also a very sad thing that
we actually can allow ourselves to become a part of something that is
destructive to others.
you work on movies like these, do you get angry? Or do they make you
feel that now you're at a point where you're able to get the message
In a way, that was the case with the story of The Only Good Indian as
well. Anyone in other places who gave a shit probably didn't know what
was going on in the West at the time. Just as we may be a planet removed
from what was happening on Pandora, anyone who was of any social
conscience probably was unaware of what was going on out West as we
portrayed in The Only Good Indian.
you find that this movie was raising the consciousness of people that
might not be aware of it?
I like to be able to raise people's consciousness, yes. And to remind
that those of us involved in the receiving end of the oppression, we
have a duty. What they really make up is a prophecy of, "Why should we
continue to do what we've always done? Can't we do it in different
ways?" Like the characters that Sigourney and Zoe play, in that research
is one thing, and perhaps that would lead to a better kind of
conciliation between the two groups if it wasn't just the out-and-out
use of "might is right." It's something that, unfortunately, we as a
human race haven't really learned up to this point.
was the best experience that came out of each movie? I guess you didn't
have to shoot Avatar
All the locations were in the computers. One day before we started work,
the actors were standing around there waiting, and James Cameron came
walking up. I saw his shirt and I thought, "Boy, I like that shirt he's
wearing." I said, "James, wow, that's a great looking shirt, I really
like that," and he just took it right off his back and said, "Here, have
it." And I still have the shirt.
working on The Only Good
I think it was learning to ride the vintage bike. It really is just a
bicycle with a motor installed and a leather drive. We had to find a
real one we could use for long-shots, but the one that I rode was
actually built to the specs of the original bike. Its drive was a
leather belt, and you know how leather reacts to heat, it stretches out.
It was very hard to always be able to take off on, so we had to have
another one built that worked off a different principle. I don't
remember any funny anecdotes about the whole thing, but it was a
pleasure to work on throughout.
subtle hit to Hollywood in The Only Good
when Sam says, "Now I'm going to move to Hollywood and play a cowboy."
One of the great pleasures of making this film seems to be that irony.
Absolutely. Irony is one of my favorite aspects of life.
You've been able to play a Native American in a lot of different
contexts. Do you feel that there are still other kinds of roles that you
want to do and stories that you want to tell?
There are more perhaps more to the point, the kind of stories I would
like to be able to tell. What I'd really like to say is that these, if
you will, Indian Wars have never ended. They've been a continuation ever
since we first met, ever since the creation of the United States. It's
been a continual warfare and a struggle to exist for most of the nations
here in the United States, and it continues to this day. I don't really
see an end to it because it's always a clash of cultures and interests
here in this wonderful nation that we live in.
you surprised to find somebody like Kevin wanting to make a movie like
Kevin surprised me a little bit, but no, I think he has a mindset that
agrees with my own outlook on life. Sometimes it's a matter of the
better alliances to make in terms of what kind of story you want to
tell. I think it was a great meeting of the minds and I think we both
learned a few things from one another that can help us with our
individual struggles in life.
seems you've worked with every major director that has touched onto the
subject in one way or another in the last twenty years, so you must have
probably one of the best surveys of directors. Who has inspired you?
I don't know about inspiration, but I've taken away something positive
from each and every one that I've ever worked with, I believe. I think
one of the great pieces of advice I ever got from a director was from
Walter Hill. He [told] me, "Talent is a wonderful thing, and it's
something to be used and abused in every effort of storytelling.
However, one of the things that we all need, those of us that are making
movies, what we really need is stamina emotional, physical, and
stamina of the soul as well."
had a chance to work with some of these directors more than once?
Oh yeah, I've worked with a number of them several times. I've worked
twice with Walter Hill on
Undisputed. Michael Mann with
[The Last of the] Mohicans and Heat. In fact, I saw
Michael at the premiere; he's wild about the film. Yeah, it's a business
of creating relationships, you know. I'd like to work with James Cameron
again, and of course we practically plan on working on something with
Kevin again. It's good to work with people that you know how they work
and they know how you work. It's mutually beneficial.
and, I would say, Graham Greene are probably the two best known Native
Americans actors working regularly. Both of you are in the two biggest
blockbusters of this season he is in New Moon,
and you're in Avatar.
Both films in some way draw on the value, or the importance, of being
connected to this cultural heritage. Has that had some larger resonance,
or did you even think about that?
I'm glad that Graham and I made it into a couple of films in 2009. It's
kind of indicative, I guess, of the amount of interest and influence we
have in contemporary and futuristic endeavors in Hollywood.
is a good thing. To think at one time they were having non-Native
American actors playing Native American characters and making them
villains, and 50 years later the most heroic figures in two of the
biggest films of all time are Native Americans.
Yeah, I think it's definitely a positive move; it's a move in the right
direction. And hey, I'm catching some optimism.
There's been an effort to have an activist African American actors
community. Do you feel that the same thing is needed with the Native
American community of actors?
Yes, there is an American Indian community of actors, and fortunately
we're getting to the point where we don't all know each other on a first
name basis anymore. I would probably be referred to as the old guard at
this point. A lot of younger people are coming along these days that are
beginning to make waves and that's a great thing. The doors have been
opened and more and more people are deciding that they would like to
step through the threshold. The activism I would leave to those who are
younger than myself and have more energy to devote to that endeavor, and
I applaud them for it. It's something that's needed.
there stories that you feel still need to be told from the Native
American experience, and are there stories you want to be a part of that
don't necessarily involve it?
One of the things that I would work toward is telling a contemporary
Native American story that is of real consequence in contemporary times.
It's always going to be a matter of connecting with the past and
thinking about the future, but we also have to work on the really great
contemporary Native American story. We haven't found it yet but that's
what we're looking for.
there particular Native American stories or books that you hope to see
made or that you want to make?
Yeah, I would like the story about a bicoastal Indian, maybe one who
lives and works and functions in places like New York City or Chicago,
San Francisco, Los Angeles perhaps Tokyo; the world. Because that is
the fact. The fact is that we are citizens of the world as much as
anyone else. A story that reflects that, I think, is something that
we're really looking forward to being able to produce and throw up on
the screen. And eventually, an Academy Award for Wes Studi.
it inevitable that the Native Americans were going to lose, or do you
think there was a point when they could have defeated the invaders?
Tecumseh had a really good idea, to tell the truth. A unified front at
that point maybe could have stopped expansion at the Ohio River Valley
or at the Mississippi River, something like that. As a matter of fact, I
read a book a number of years ago that was called, The Indians Won, [by
Martin Cruz Smith] which was a science-fiction at that point and time,
but would probably put us at just where we are now. It was that
coalition of Native nations had been able to stop the westward expansion
and claimed an area within the confines of North America. It was a
nation divided; they were on the coasts, and then the Native Americans
occupied an area in between, and we were on the point of shooting for
the moon with rockets. It was an interesting story that I'd like to find
again and maybe find the rights to it.
people expect you to be able to use all these Native American weapons
and ride? Are you a good rider?
The first job I ever got out of Los Angeles was dependent on the fact
that I could ride a horse, shoot a bow and a gun, and speak a language
other than English, simultaneously. So I got the job.
there other Native American languages that you speak?
Not fluently, no. Just un poquito Espaρol.
The Only Good
Indianhas appeared in
festivals, but this is an unusual effort that you're self-distributing
it to a degree. Was there any frustration about getting it out there, or
you just wanted to control it?
It's really a matter of control. We don't want to bend over as much as
distributors would like to have us do. I think it's a better choice to
contain control of it on our part at this point.
you think of writing a book based on your experiences?
I'm probably working on my memoirs as we speak, yes.
sure you add in this interview once it gets posted.
I would like to be referred to as the 20th-Century Electric Indian.