only natural – streamlining and combining the technologies of
video-gaming and movie-making. It's an idea that has been tantalizing
programmers and cinephiles for a few decades now, but the technology is
finally hitting a focal point where it is both technically possible and
even reasonably inexpensive to make, and for fans to buy. In a world
full of smart phones and tablets, streaming interactive games are the
wave of the future.
that wave is Interlude, an interactive-video media and tech firm which
wants to change the way that we game. Point and shoot is fine, they
feel, but they want to give the stories and characters time and place to
breathe. The imaginative minds behind Interlude want us to play a game
much like we watch a favorite series or read a novel, a new variation on
our busy entertainment schedule.
The executive creative director for Interlude is the British-born Sam
Barlow, a long time programmer and director at Climax Studios, where he
worked on a couple of Silent Hill games, Crusty Demons and
the video game tie-in to Nicolas Cage's Ghost Rider movie.
However, it was his first game for Interlude, a police-procedural
Her Story, which won a devoted following and a series of awards from
gaming publications, including a Golden Joystick Award. He is currently
working on a new game based on the 1983 hit film
of Creative and Innovation at Interlude is Israeli-born Alon Benari, who
comes into the business from the other side. A respected television
director in his homeland, but also with a background in software, he was
excited by the idea of merging the two mediums to create a separate art
recently caught up with Barlow and Benari at Wizard World Philadelphia
Comic-Con, where they had just given a lecture and demonstration of
Interlude's new world of games. After they finished telling their fans
what to expect in their video frontier, the three of us had a little
chat about the future of video gaming.
did you decide that mixing games together with filmmaking was the wave
of the future?
Sam Barlow: For me it was the
last couple of years of working on traditional video games and the rise
of mobile gaming as a thing and the rise of digital distribution. The
beauty of mobile was you have this huge audience of people that have
these incredibly powerful devices in their hands and they don't have
sticks on them. They don't have shooty shooty buns, or whatever.
Suddenly you had this audience that was prepared for new ways of
interacting with things. They weren't necessarily a traditional video
game audience. Storytelling is such a fundamental thing, so suddenly
you have this huge number of iPhones and iPads and things in people's
hands, and you could tell them stories. Even my mum has an iPhone and
she knows how to use it. To swipe, click and touch. So you could speak
to those people and say, hey, look, here's a piece of storytelling or a
piece of interactivity that you could explore on this. Suddenly it just
opened up. For me this is a new way. There's always been experimental
interactive storytelling. There have been pieces that have used video
or music or all sorts of different things, but they've always been a
niche. If you're selling it to a video games audience, those kind of
things are more niche. The minute you hit the larger world of a more
mainstream audience, suddenly these things can have real value.
you were saying in your talk that growing up in Israel you had very
little television – just one network – until the mid 1990s. Did you
have access to much in the way of gaming?
Alon Benari: We had American TV
and stuff like that, but the TV industry there wasn't much. But,
yeah, as a kid I would play Winter Games and stuff like that.
Sam Barlow: Avalon was
very good. That was great.
Alon Benari: I have to say,
it's interesting, because I'm in the opposite world. I stopped playing
video games when I was like 18, 19, besides, like Civilization.
I went strictly to film and TV. When I went to film school, graduate
school, we even had this research group about interactive video. It was
so far fetched. The technology wasn't there. The broadband wasn't
there. It was just something that wasn't possible. Over the past few
years, suddenly the tech is so available. The know-how is so
available. There is something naturally evolving, and you see that
games have really shifted in that direction in the last few years. Film
has shifted. Everything. This feels like the right time to bring these
interesting, I remember back again in the 80s and 90s they kept trying
to make interactive films and they never really worked. Watching your
games in the conference room, it feels like it may have finally hit a
point that it might just work. Do you see that as another avenue for
Alon Benari: I'll tell you
something that Sam mentioned to me last week. I think the medium isn't
so much the bottom line here. It's how you approach writing for it. In
the first days of film, when they started making films, they brought
theater people to write scripts. And what you got was filmed theater,
[with] this static camera shooting. It took time until they understood:
okay, we can cut to close-ups, and we can edit scenes. There's this new
storytelling language that this format allows for. If you look at the
interactive experiments of the 90s, and even the F & V games, they
brought in Hollywood writers and they would do a narrative film with
alternate endings. There were alternate options for the scenes, but
they didn't really write for the format. What you see that is gradually
evolving today is an understanding that this is a new format that
requires different stories. This will not be World of Warcraft
and this will not be Titanic, this will be something new.
do you find story-based games more interesting than more traditional
point and shoot ones?
Sam Barlow: I think that all of
these things are valid ways of entertaining ourselves. The thing that's
interesting to me is, and you find it even in the most shooty, shooty
games, when you do focus tests and speak to the audience and you ask
them how important is the story, and the characters, and the setting: Oh
my God, that's super, super important, even when they are just
peripheral. As humans, that's how we relate. For me, the big
excitement is that, as I said on the panel, it's only been the last 100
years that stories have been this static, passive thing, where you just
want the film. Whenever you see the film, it's the same film. Every
time you watch it, it's the same film again. Traditionally, that isn't
how storytelling worked. What computers give is this wonderful ability
to make stories that return to that kind of sense of flexibility and
personalization. Bring stories back to life.
did you decide to do "Charlie Gets Fired" as an animated game? The rest
of your games seem to be live action.
Alon Benari: The way it
actually works and the way we're trying to do these things goes back to
basically all the projects. If you don't have a good story, the
creative isn't good, nothing will be worth it. The way we work it, is
we tap into creators we would like to work with. We reached out to a
couple of young creators. We usually do not do animated stuff,
actually. They had this crazy idea about this crazy animated
character. That was what they wanted to do. They went and used our
platform to build this thing. It came out as something that we felt
really worked. It was compelling and funny. We said, "Okay, it's
great." I think the magic of what we bring is definitely more visible
in live action, but still this is streaming video and animation is a
huge part of content and content online today. We see the audience
responding to this great.
you are putting together a game idea, do you plan it all out almost like
outlining a novel, or storyboarding a movie, or do you let the story
reveal itself to you? Is it even possible to plan everything out, with
it going in so many different directions?
Sam Barlow: It depends on the
project, but yeah. We are still lacking a format or a piece of software
that makes it easy to do these things. It always comes out printing out
lots of pages and spreading them out on a table and hoping that you
don't use up the whole table.
Alon Benari: Partly because
each one of these projects is different, every time we say, "Okay, we've
figured out the format," then we go, "Oooh, with this next project we'll
go with five different screens running at once." It's part of what's
fun. It's part of discovering this new format.
You had said in your talk that you were going to do some
games based on the old TV series The Twilight
Zone. How did that come about? Will you be
using old stories or doing things in the vein of the show?
Sam Barlow: With Twilight
Zone and with WarGames, it's a case of Interlude has very
good connections with the TV and film world. A lot of those companies
are super-excited about the idea of where this could go. We had
conversations with them around how could we create something that is
right for this new medium that is going to make sense. Not just
throwing anything at it. Obviously WarGames is super
applicable. The interesting thing with Twilight Zone is...
especially the original series, which I think is what Ken [Levine,
director of BioShock, who is heading up the project] is taking
much of the inspiration from... is they told these parables that were
ripped straight from the modern world, but given this sci-fi twist.
Every episode would have this lovely twist to it, this kind of sting in
the tail. Classical suspense and genre writing.
Why did Ken feel like the right fit for the
Twilight Zone game?
Sam Barlow: Ken, in his video
game work is most infamous for delivering some of the first famous
instances of unreliable narrators. These big twists that really pulled
the rug out from under you, but doing that in an interactive way, so you
can make the player or the audience more complicit. Feel like they've
brought this upon themselves. I think with Twilight Zone,
figuring out how you tell that kind of classic, self-contained, sting in
the tail parable, and do it interactively. Is that twist in the actual
interactive play? Is it in how these things pan out in the variations
system? That creates a whole interesting way of refreshing and
rebooting that. I think that – like every possible story that can be
told – has to be told. That's the challenge if you're a storyteller.
Finding fresh themes or skins for classic stories. Fresh new angles.
For me with Her Story, it was like the police procedural is such
an evergreen thing. I've seen every variation on that.
I'll probably date myself a bit, but hearing the basic
idea of Her Story reminded me of a really
old series by Sierra called Police Quest.
Sam Barlow: Yeah, I played the
Police Quest games. [But with Her Story we asked:] How do
we do this in a fresh new way? So, the interactivity, the perspective
you had, that was a way of leveraging... the audience knows so much
about genre now, it's really hard to surprise them with linear. But
with Her Story, it was actually used to my advantage, because the
audience was helping to put this story together with me, so the fact
that they knew all the twists, the fact that the second they saw a woman
sat in a chair talking to the police, they are like: (snaps his
fingers) "Okay, did she
do it? Did she not do it? What's she not saying?" They've had all
that apparatus. We have such an intelligent, educated, multitasking
audience out there. If you just sit them in front of a classic old TV
show, it's not enough there. It's not enough for their brains to get
stuck into. Their brains are going about a hundred miles an hour, three
or four screens. So finding a way to tap into all that going on and
make that part of a show, I think is a great achievement.
did you decide it was time to leave Climax Studios and go out on your
Sam Barlow: Yeah, it happened
at a point where the traditional games industry that I felt – I'd done
Silent Hill and I spent a lot of time working on a Legacy of
Kain – when I was doing that I felt like I'm on this trajectory
where I'm getting to make these big-budget story-driven games, and
that's a thing I can keep doing. I'll be the Christopher Nolan of video
games, or whatever. When I made that decision to move independently, it
felt like there had been this big shift in the video game industry that
people hadn't necessarily acknowledged yet, but less and less
story-driven single player games are being made. Most games now are
games of service. They are multi-player things, less focused on telling
a story. If you want to tell a five-to-ten-hour story, no one is going
to pay the 10, 20, 30 million dollars that it costs to make that. There
was this big shift in the industry where the kinds of stories and
characters I wanted to explore didn't feel like that was necessarily an
Were you surprised by how well
Her Story did as your first independent work?
Sam Barlow: There was this big
rise in digital distribution of this broad market, and so very much
Her Story was an experiment. If I make this thing that I feel like
should be of interest to people, is there an audience? The excitement
to me was finding out there was this huge audience and it did spread
into the mainstream. It got covered in mainstream newspapers and
magazines and TV and places that traditional video games don't normally
reach. Then to me, working with Interlude was like: how do we take that
to the next step? Because there is still that restriction of I need to
download something at the app store. I need to have Steam on my
computer. How do we make something that is even more ubiquitous? Even
easier to get hold of. Because that's the really dirty little secret of
video games, it's true that when a big video game comes out, it brings
in more money than a big movie does. That's because these games cost
$60.00 each and fans are going out and buying them on day one, because
they have quite a short shelf life. Still, if a big movie comes out,
the audience for a big movie is way bigger and broader. The secondary
market, people can see it on TV, on planes, on DVD. That is still a
much larger audience for you to connect to, so trying to tap into an
audience like that, I think, is the big excitement.
I was reading you are going to be doing a second
Her Story game. Will that be
a continuation of the original or just a similar type of tale?
Sam Barlow: Yes, a fresh story
and subject matter.
We were talking about the
Twilight Zone and WarGames adaptations
you guys are doing. If you had absolutely no limits on what you chose,
what would be your ideal story to turn into a game?
Sam Barlow: I'm pretty adamant
that the one I'm working on is usually the thing that is most exciting
me. So, WarGames, I remember when it was first mentioned that
this was a possibility, the video game designer in me, who has worked on
some movie tie-ins, immediately was like: Oh, a piece of old movie IP.
That's never a good idea. Then like five seconds later it was like,
well, actually, that was a really cool movie. That was the movie that
for a whole generation defined hacking. Introduced all these ideas that
really tapped in to the younger generation and their feelings toward the
cold war. That was a great movie. Then thinking: well, now imagine
that movie rebooted in 2016 when you have Anonymous and LulzSec and the
hacker activists. You have the war on terror and the way technology and
government surveillance is all part of that package now. It's like,
wow, that's super interesting stuff.
I agree, WarGames
is ripe for a reboot. The fact that it was so ahead of
its time makes people sometimes forget that the movie was made during
the days of MS-DOS. Computer technology has changed so much that you
have so many things you can do with it.
Alon Benari: (laughs)
The fact that he could operate a modem made him a whiz kid.
Sam Barlow: That was amazing
sci-fi future tech. Wow, he can log into a [computer] over a phone
Alon Benari: Incredible.
Sam Barlow: And yeah, finding a
lot of other ways. Speaking to people in the hacking community. With
this version of WarGames we are leading with this 20-year-old
female protagonist and just finding a way to make it modern and
relevant. Make it feel more fresh and modern, diverse and tap into
contemporary politics and things. There's a lot of excitement there
about can we create something here that is as inspiring to a younger
generation now as that movie was back then.
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