Against the backdrop of 1970s Texas Hill Country, Ain’t
Them Bodies Saints tells a gothic American tale of three
characters straddling various sides of the law – outlaw Bob Muldoon
(Casey Affleck), his wife Ruth Guthrie (Rooney Mara), and local
sheriff Patrick Wheeler (Ben Foster), who gets caught in their
The film starts where other stories often end with the
outlaw being captured, the lawman getting wounded and the wife
finding out she’s pregnant. This noir-ish narrative puts in
play a set of characters who follow a very deliberately downward
spiral that concludes with a death and a redemption.
Bob escapes from prison and sets out across the Texas hills
to reunite with his wife and the daughter he’s never met. Her
settled life in this small Texas town becomes disrupted by his
arrival and the goals she’s not sure she shares with him anymore.
Supported by veteran actors Nate Parker and Keith Carradine
(who played a similarly tragic outlaw in Robert Altman’s Thieves
Like Us), this methodically paced drama neither involves larger
than life characters nor grapples with huge issues. There is more to
that whether to make the choice whether to live or to love in a
place where doing one almost certainly endangers the possibility of
The second feature from writer-director David Lowery, this
film was developed at the Sundance Institute's Writing and Producing
Labs. It received the U.S. Dramatic Cinematography Award at the 2013
Sundance Film Festival.
Making the transition from her high-profile role as Lisbeth
Salander in the big-budgeted Girl With The Dragon Tattoo to
this low-keyed film, Mara delivers a cool nuanced performance.
Spurred on by her older sister Kate’s already busy acting career,
Rooney has been building a resume that both includes Hollywood
tentpole projects and intimate indies such as this feature.
As your character
develops from being a child to an adult that takes on the
responsibilities for her kid, your character serves as an archetype
for the person who goes through this transition of growing up.
Most of the film is played when she goes through that
transition. Certainly it's something me and David talked a lot
about; how Ruth was before [the situation in the film]. I think she
used to be a very fiery, stubborn, feisty character who was full of
life. I think having a child definitely changed her. When Ruth finds
out she's going to have a baby I don't think she's particularly
excited by it. She doesn't feel ready and it's not something she
wants. Bob is more excited about it than she is. Then, when he gets
taken away to prison she really doesn't want to have a baby. It's
like, “No I want Bob back, I want my life back, and I want my
childhood back.” She really [feels that way.] It’s not exactly in
the movie, but at least for me, she really is fighting it the entire
time until she sees the baby for the first time. Then she's in.
What made you
want to play Ruth? You don't play her as an archetype but as a
The person that she is was so interesting. Where she ends
up with the relationship between her and Bob was also interesting.
Also I really wanted to play a mom. But so many times I just read
these scripts where it’s just like the mom. It's just the protective
mom, and it’s so unrealistic to me. People are more complex than
that. I found that the way she's a mom to be was really different
from anything else that I'd read.
In what way?
Because she did fight it. It's not like she found out she
was having a baby and was all of a sudden she was like, "Yes I am a
mother now I am going to make smart responsible decisions.” That’s
not how life happens. You can be a parent and love your child more
than anything and still make bad decisions. And you think you're
making the right decisions. A lot of the mothers I have read about
are just like that. Just a very idealized version of like a
protective mother. I found this to be more realistic, her
relationship. I just found their relationship and the way she's a
mom with the decisions she has to make [intriguing].
She’s hugs her
daughter all the time, singing to her, sleeping with her, she's very
bonded with the little girl.
Yes, they're very bonded. But at times it felt like a
relationship you have with your little sister, if you had a sister
and had to raise her. It felt much more interesting and real to me
than anything I'd read.
Was it insightful
to you in terms of how you might think you would behave or not
behave if you were having a kid?
No, I didn't think of it in terms of that. But certainly I
thought of it in terms of... Ruth has to make these decisions
between the life that she had with Bob and the life and
responsibilities she has now with her child. Like I said before, she
can have a kid and still think that going with Bob is the right
thing to do for your child. I think you really can convince yourself
of anything when you're in love with someone. I don't think parents
always make the right decisions. Sometimes parents make selfish
decisions. That doesn’t mean they love their children any less.
Bob takes the
fall for Ruth. There’s punishment to be meted out and he takes it.
But Patrick represents forgiveness, so he's the bridge to a
different life for your character that takes you out of that
eye-for-an-eye realm. Do you think your character understands what
he’s offering? Did you personally see this as a two-parter, the old
testament vs. the new forgiveness aspect of your life?
I never thought of it in terms of the New and Old Testament
[laughs]. But in terms of Patrick and Ruth…
He represents a
different way of looking at the law.
It's very sweet that he offers her forgiveness. That's
great and can certainly help her. But at the end of the day it's
more about forgiving herself. While she has guilt for shooting this
man, most of her guilt lies with the fact that the person she loves
has taken the blame for it and is now been spending his life in
prison. It’s more about forgiving herself than getting forgiveness
from someone else.
anything from your personal life – either through reading or an
incident that you plugged into – that effected her act of
With Ruth? No. Maybe I've taken too many psychology classes
or have been in too many therapy sessions. I know self-forgiveness
is very important isn't it, to growth?
spoke about seeing a movie like Thieves Like Us. Of course, Keith Carradine was the star in that
film and then being in this film which had a lot of this style. What
films did you see that helped you get a sense of the period?
There were films that David had me watch McCabe and
Mrs. Miller and of course Badlands. But you know David’s
script was really quite beautiful and poetic – and there wasn't
really much further you had to go on than that.
What was it to
David’s direction or his approach, what element did you find
fascinating besides his script that was fascinating, compared to say
a Steven Soderbergh, or David Fincher or even Spike Jonze.
He wrote it. It came from his mind. So right there, he has
to be fascinating and smart to have written it. Then when I met him
I could just tell that this isn't just a writer who wrote a
beautiful script. He saw the movie and knew what he wanted it to
feel like, sound like and look like. I could just tell he was
special. Everyone has to start somewhere. It didn't scare me that he
didn't have this body of work like some of the other people I've
worked with. That was one of the things that excited me about
working with him.
It was a new
adventure in a way.
I believed in him, and wanted to be a part of it.
How dependent are
you on the director when you're working? Some directors expect the
actor once they’re cast to show up and have it, know what they're
doing, and they let them do it. Woody Allen is like that.
Steven [Soderbergh] is like that.
How much do you
expect from the director?
The thing is, the director is everything. I always love the
director. I put all of my trust and faith into them. It has to be
someone that I will follow and give myself over to their process. So
when I worked with Steven I showed up ready and knew what I was
doing. When I worked with someone like David Lowery it was much more
collaborative. We could play with things. I give myself over to
whatever their process is, so I don't have be like “Oh I need the
director or I don't need…” I really just give myself over to what
they like to do.
Your acting is
always amazing but how difficult was it to play a role like Ruth?
It was great. The way they set it up was that Casey came to
Shreveport and he shot his stuff for two and a half or three weeks.
Then I came and we shot our stuff together and then he left and I
shot my stuff without him. In the film, Casey's character is waiting
for me. He's waiting to see what I’m going to be like now that I’m a
different person. He’s just waiting and there's all the
anticipation. So he had that feeling the whole time he was shooting.
Then we met and we shot our scenes together. Then he left and my
character spends most of the entire movie pining for and missing
him. They set it up perfectly. The little screen time that we do
have together does have to carry through the film. It’s really
important. Translated otherwise you wouldn’t want to watch the film.
They did a good job at setting that up.
David said he
doesn't like guns and was going to have a very different ending with
you and Ben Foster’s character. I asked him did he have a gun and he
said no, you don't have a a gun, but did you find it interesting to
work with guns or have you done much in some of the other films as
I didn’t find it interesting to work with guns. I don't
like guns. I don't want to be around a gun. There's nothing I like
about guns, except that they look really cool in Western movies.
Other than that I have no interest in guns. I remember I had to
shoot the gun. I had never shot one before. I had to shoot it and I
didn't like it. I don't like shooting...
In the opening
battle when you shoot the guy….
Yeah, that was fun, I guess. [laughs]
To watch you in
this movie or
Side Effects is fun. What do you look for in a part? Do you worry
about being typecast as the quiet serious person? Is that's what you
are? I don't know what you're doing with Spike Jonze in Her.
I don't really feel as though I'm typecast. I think I'm
lucky in that I get lots of different opportunities. But yes if I
were to be typecast as anything, I definitely do get a lot of quiet…
is in some ways quiet. And in other ways, not very contained. Could
you ever play wild, like in Her. I know it's sci-fi but I
don't know what you can say about it.
I haven't seen it, so I don’t know what I do in it or
what's in there. But that's not the point. Every character I play
has a lot of internal life, because I have a lot of an internal
life. That's not really something I can turn off. I don't think the
character in Her is what you're talking about. And certainly
I can do other things than that.
Can you be big
and bawdy and funny if you wanted to?
Yes. I could I’m sure…
Does anybody ever
think of you that way? Not yet?
I don't know, but they will.
You’re not doing
a Jewish comedy right now though?
Not yet. But I would love to.
Could you do
Broadway, maybe singing and dancing?
No. I couldn't do a musical.
Dragon Tattoo change your life?
changed my life tremendously in that I work all the time now, or
that I can work all the time now. The opportunity that I have now is
incredible, but people hardly ever recognize me. Maybe once a month.
People just don't recognize me and they don't really care, I guess.
That’s great and fine.
At your sister's
House of Cards premiere over in Alice Tully Hall, you showed up
and were literally chased into the backstage area by a pack of
photographers who wouldn't let you alone. Do you get that all the
time? Like if you went to the green market here would people follow
Yeah that was weird.
Will you do the
[Dragon Tattoo] sequel? Has anybody at Sony said anything about
I would love to, but I don’t know.
The Girl Who Played With Fire is on the list. You've
read all the books...
Yes of course.
What are you
I'm doing Stephen Daldry’s next movie, Trash.
An Irish movie
with a priest?
It’s a Brazilian film.
You’re going to
Brazil... Where do you get to go – Rio, Sao Paulo?
I'm going to Brazil. Yes, in Rio. I get to combine my two
Is it a thriller?
Yes, it's quite thrilling.
You’ll dig the
music though; the music is incredible in Brazil.
That will be soon, I promise.
in supporting a particular cause in relation to Africa. Oddly enough
when they screened the movie it was paired with a movie about an
African couple called
Mother of George. How did you get connected to that - you should
see that movie by the way - where did that passion come from?
I graduated from high school early and traveled with this
school called the Traveling School. We went throughout South America
for four months. That's where my love of traveling came from. Then I
was at NYU and taking this class called "Writing About Africa" and
we were reading all this literature written by different African
authors. I was doing this research paper on child soldiers on
Uganda. I was learning all this stuff I didn't know about Africa and
really missed traveling. I wanted to go somewhere I just couldn't
find any volunteer opportunities in Uganda, so I randomly chose
Kenya and ended up there. It’s a very long story from there but
that's how I ended up there when I was that age.
Now you have this
I started a non profit called Faces of Kibera. We've since
merged with this other group that we met in Kenya. Her non profit
was called Uweza. We were always helping each other and doing
similar things so we decided to join forces.
Are you a style
I don't feel like a style icon, but I don't know. I mean I
haven't really been around long enough to use words like icon.
Are you fashion
conscious and do you like it?
I have always had a very specific taste. I have a certain
aesthetic. It's part of my job to get dressed for these things so
I'm fashion conscious... I can tell you that in my everyday life I
do not put that much effort into what I wear, but I still really
like the way certain clothes look. In my every day life I really
don't put that much effort into what I wear.
Did you see the
punk couture show at the Met?
Yeah, it was fantastic.
Nice fashion but
not really punk. It's not really very authentic. Some interesting
clothes that you could be wearing in the spirit of Lisbeth Salander.
Some things in the exhibition seem right out of that film.
What’s the best
advice your actress sister Kate told you about the industry or the
roles you should you have. Anything you keep in mind?
I don't have a great line to give you on that. Even if I
did it would be very personal if she gave me advice.
She didn't take
you aside, put her arm around you and say, "Rooney now this is what
you have to watch out for?"
That would be a good little thing but it's my sister; we're
each others' biggest supporters. I feel so lucky to have someone
that's that close to me who’s in the same industry. I can't imagine
not having her in the business with me.